Hi Igor,
Well, now I am disappointed…lol, no really I didn’t really believe that you would actually masturbate in a video….but who knows, you never really surprise me much.
Seesmic should be a place where you can talk about whatever you want, and your work should not be deleted, and you shouldn’t have to be threatened of the lost of your account because of your parodies. People shouldn’t take things out of context, and watch the whole feed, instead of just one video. (Seesmic FAIL)
I mean, I love to watch your parodies, some of the stuff I see on Seesmic I shut off, because they are boring, nothing you do is ever boring for sure. I suppose if Seesmic only wants boring stuff on it, I guess that is their way, but it certainly won’t build up the amount of subscribers, actually they may lose them.
Well, you know my stance on this. I think the web should be free…”evolve, and let the chips fall where they may”.
As to whether you are wasting your time being angry at Seesmic or ranting the way you do on issues like this…well, you can definitely be crude, but I think what you have to say matters and is important (most of the time, sometimes it is just amusing, but amusement is important, too). You latch on to certain issues and your reasons are valid. The “fake identity” and attempt at social media censorship issue involving “Amanda Chapel” is a valid one, though I think you and Noah sometimes cut off your own nose to spite your face (ie some people who would be open to what you have to say get turned off by the crudity). I think the censorship issue in general in a valid one.
So if you have a valid point should you fight and argue and rant, even though they will probably not do anything in response? Well, it depends on how you think about it. I think certain acts have moral and ethical value beyond their pragmatic consequences. I tend to vote in elections, not because I don’t understand mathematics and know that aggregate votes means that my one vote can never mean anything one way or the other, but because I think it is important as a moral: to speak my peace, to express my nature and choice, and to participate in the community that, like it or not, I am a part of.
So I would say that you should fight the fights, whether it “matters” pragmatically or not, because it matters to you, and choices like that define who you are as a being. You are a better human for fighting those fights.
Of course, this is all just my opinion, and I’m an asshole and probably wrong.
Seesmic doesn’t want its front pages full of controversial topics! Why can’t you get that Igor ? It’s a mass market appeal based business model with little closed doorways ( read go private ) for those want them. If you want to do controversial then you gotta go private and discuss it privately, surely no? If you had a child would you really want them viewing stuff that might disturb or bother them. Most parents wouldn’t.
Rob Youtube is controversial and every other video blogging platform has controversial topics!
Loic Lemeur pretending to be something special, but he is not! He knows how to raise VC money but he does not know how to build and manage a Social Media network.
Look at Friend Feed and how popular it is! The developers do not get involved in moderating content they let the network flourish!
Seesmic is dying and competition is around the corner - Phreadz!
I as a Seesmic user voicing my opinion which is my right as a stakeholder in the company! If I did not care about Seesmic community I would just walk away and let them FAIL
Rob, while you make a good point, and I do agree that Seesmic has the perfect right to control their own property, the issue here is what is deemed controversial is always just a matter of opinion, and who’s opinion will be what is used as the guideline?
To some, any discussion of religion other than Christianity is controversial, and the peculiar puritanism coupled with obsession typical of American is not shared in most parts of the world. Legalizing marijuana, the War on Terror, Scientology, jailbreaking iPhones…who decided what is controversial? Whose interests are catered to while other’s interests are ignored?
And please, if you wish to engage in anything like a rational discussion, keep the alarmist “but please gawd, won’t somebody think of the CHILDREN!?!?!” rhetoric out of it. That is a device, meant to elicit an emotional response and quell further debate. Don’t insult me and demean yourself by using such crass tactics.
I have to say that such rhetoric is just as silly. These issues are more complex, and need to be discussed. Simply insulting Loic and Seesmic serves little purpose. If you wish them to take your ideas seriously (which they are generally worthy of) you must be willing to engage in debate and that means the principle of charity is absolutely necessary. Trying to spin things towards the negative is useless if you want to discuss the real issues.
I understand your frustration, but you must endeavor to take the moral high-ground. It’s hard, I know that, but if you really feel like your agenda is about the issues and not your ego, then you must be willing to be condescended to from time to time. You have chosen your role, that of the “troll with a goal”, and that means you will often have to work harder to make yourself understood.
I often explain you to my friends as being the Henry Miller or William Burroughs of social media. Remember how each of them were interacted with by their literary peers during their own lives.
Neal - LOL thanks for the insult ; I’ll be the judge of my ability to engage or disengage in rationality thanks very much. Emotional devices and the responses they elicit are (IMHO) fantastic tools for stimulating debate, not quelling it! Fuck calm logical discussion. Get impassioned, talk about stuff like it matters to you.
No one ever asked Igor to stop doing A B or C. I think Igor will agree with me when i say that in practically every scenario of his various online ostracisations from whatever online community or person that he has chosen to butt heads with you’d care to cite; they’ve usually been as a result of Igor refusing to abide by whatever was asked by the rules of the community at the time.
He’d berate and antagonise to get a reaction, via blogs or tweets or forums. It’s Igors way of getting the juices flowing. Yet it isn’t always appreciated by the people on the receiving end. These people have friends and allies and well..the rest as they say is history.
Like it or not, communities, societies do have rules and I agree too that we are absolutely free to choose to abide, challenge or plain ignore these rules. However, by having such freedom we also need to be mindful of the fact that every action has its consequences. You can’t ignore the rule of cause and effect. Do we see a big outcry of support for Igor’s view? No we don’t. Why is that I wonder? Probably because it doesn’t have a groundswell of support.
It sounds like I’m beating up on you Igor, I’m not. I get you, and I get why you do what you do, yet as you’ve encountered not everyone is of the same mind, especially when it comes to projects that have an aim that conflict with the controversial subject matter you discuss.
You’ve got a few quid in your pocket and some programming nous, if you want to discuss controversy, then why not build a platform and enable for such debate instead. You’ll have total control and be able to dictate what is and what isn’t on. I’m guessing that you’d draw lines in the sand too, if you didn’t then the law would kick your arse sir.
No one ever asked Igor to stop doing A B or C, (at least not in places that he owns and controls). I think Igor will agree with me when i say that in practically every scenario of his various online ostracisations from whatever online community or person that he has chosen to butt heads with you’d care to cite; they’ve usually been as a result of Igor refusing to abide
Rob, why should I abide? Am I some sheep that says thank you maam and eat the shit even when it is packaged as exotic delicacy!
Of course I am going to speak out when I see something wrong! I am not going to procrastinate and masturbate my life away!
I say my opinion and ring the bells really hard! They have wax in their ears and not interested in diverging opinion I go my way! I am not in the business fighting brick walls!
The wall will collapse on itself unless it changes!
Seesmic likes to fashion itself as the “twitter” or video. Being that all of the conversations are ‘viral’ because of the way they tip and turn from one user to another and can turn into something entirely different from what the original post was about. That’s the definition of ‘viral’ if you ask me.
Now, as far as to what topics are aloud and what aren’t, let them be prudes about it. You can talk about any subject on twitter. That’s the idea. Freedom. We are free to block the conversations we don’t want to hear. Seesmic will only lose users and clout for making such statements.
Loic is too smart for that. At least, I thought he was. But then again, a good friend of mine that worked for him left recently because, and I quote, “my boss has turned into a big asshole.” And no, I cannot reveal a name for privacy and reputation reasons.
[…] Igor the Troll has thoughts. Igor the Troll likes to share his thoughts. Igor the Troll likes to talk smack while on a train in China. This should be good. Self-professed “crazy dude” Igor decided to tell videographer Loren Feldmen what he thought about him while bouncing along somewhere in the Far East. Entertainment ensued. Highlights from the troll: “Loren Feldmen you’re a loser…You’re just a douchebag…All you do is kiss Michael Arrington and Robert Scoble Ass.” Speaking of ass, Igor’s not always playing Debbie Downer on Feldman’s parade, sometimes he likes to creep the beejeebes out of everyone by discussing masturbation. […]
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:54 am
Actually I was going to do this video on Seesmic! It would have been a such gag fo you to see me jerk off on video right on Seesmic!
But Seesmic censors and deletes objectionable videos; hence this post! No artist likes to see their work deleted! Destroying Art is Fascism!
Seesmic is Fascist!
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:40 pm
Hi Igor,
Well, now I am disappointed…lol, no really I didn’t really believe that you would actually masturbate in a video….but who knows, you never really surprise me much.
Seesmic should be a place where you can talk about whatever you want, and your work should not be deleted, and you shouldn’t have to be threatened of the lost of your account because of your parodies. People shouldn’t take things out of context, and watch the whole feed, instead of just one video. (Seesmic FAIL)
I mean, I love to watch your parodies, some of the stuff I see on Seesmic I shut off, because they are boring, nothing you do is ever boring for sure. I suppose if Seesmic only wants boring stuff on it, I guess that is their way, but it certainly won’t build up the amount of subscribers, actually they may lose them.
August 23rd, 2008 at 5:01 pm
I glad you picked up on the “masturbation” metaphor not took it as a sign that I want to discuss masturbation!
August 23rd, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Well, you know my stance on this. I think the web should be free…”evolve, and let the chips fall where they may”.
As to whether you are wasting your time being angry at Seesmic or ranting the way you do on issues like this…well, you can definitely be crude, but I think what you have to say matters and is important (most of the time, sometimes it is just amusing, but amusement is important, too). You latch on to certain issues and your reasons are valid. The “fake identity” and attempt at social media censorship issue involving “Amanda Chapel” is a valid one, though I think you and Noah sometimes cut off your own nose to spite your face (ie some people who would be open to what you have to say get turned off by the crudity). I think the censorship issue in general in a valid one.
So if you have a valid point should you fight and argue and rant, even though they will probably not do anything in response? Well, it depends on how you think about it. I think certain acts have moral and ethical value beyond their pragmatic consequences. I tend to vote in elections, not because I don’t understand mathematics and know that aggregate votes means that my one vote can never mean anything one way or the other, but because I think it is important as a moral: to speak my peace, to express my nature and choice, and to participate in the community that, like it or not, I am a part of.
So I would say that you should fight the fights, whether it “matters” pragmatically or not, because it matters to you, and choices like that define who you are as a being. You are a better human for fighting those fights.
Of course, this is all just my opinion, and I’m an asshole and probably wrong.
August 23rd, 2008 at 5:35 pm
Neal, you are absolutely correct! Our actions and our believes define us!
And that is my fight, to show everyone that they have a voice!
I do it in a crude way because it is poignant! If I do it in a soft way people will not pay attention to the message!
And I know I am hurting myself in the short term because I turn many people off with my abrasiveness!
But as a true artist, I have to be willing to sacrifice myself for the art! It is not about me and it will never be about me!
August 23rd, 2008 at 5:51 pm
Seesmic doesn’t want its front pages full of controversial topics! Why can’t you get that Igor ? It’s a mass market appeal based business model with little closed doorways ( read go private ) for those want them. If you want to do controversial then you gotta go private and discuss it privately, surely no? If you had a child would you really want them viewing stuff that might disturb or bother them. Most parents wouldn’t.
August 23rd, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Rob Youtube is controversial and every other video blogging platform has controversial topics!
Loic Lemeur pretending to be something special, but he is not! He knows how to raise VC money but he does not know how to build and manage a Social Media network.
Look at Friend Feed and how popular it is! The developers do not get involved in moderating content they let the network flourish!
Seesmic is dying and competition is around the corner - Phreadz!
I as a Seesmic user voicing my opinion which is my right as a stakeholder in the company! If I did not care about Seesmic community I would just walk away and let them FAIL
August 23rd, 2008 at 6:09 pm
Rob, while you make a good point, and I do agree that Seesmic has the perfect right to control their own property, the issue here is what is deemed controversial is always just a matter of opinion, and who’s opinion will be what is used as the guideline?
To some, any discussion of religion other than Christianity is controversial, and the peculiar puritanism coupled with obsession typical of American is not shared in most parts of the world. Legalizing marijuana, the War on Terror, Scientology, jailbreaking iPhones…who decided what is controversial? Whose interests are catered to while other’s interests are ignored?
And please, if you wish to engage in anything like a rational discussion, keep the alarmist “but please gawd, won’t somebody think of the CHILDREN!?!?!” rhetoric out of it. That is a device, meant to elicit an emotional response and quell further debate. Don’t insult me and demean yourself by using such crass tactics.
August 23rd, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Yeah Rob, I know you for a few years now, and I was surprised with your “but please gawd, won’t somebody think of the CHILDREN!?!?!” line!
I did not want to say anything because of our friendship but being that Neal brought it up I am chiming in!
Rob I think you been eating too much Seesmic Dry Toast!
August 23rd, 2008 at 6:17 pm
@Igor
I have to say that such rhetoric is just as silly. These issues are more complex, and need to be discussed. Simply insulting Loic and Seesmic serves little purpose. If you wish them to take your ideas seriously (which they are generally worthy of) you must be willing to engage in debate and that means the principle of charity is absolutely necessary. Trying to spin things towards the negative is useless if you want to discuss the real issues.
August 23rd, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Neal I totally agree with you and I am doing this as a last resort!
I tried talking to Loic Lemeur but he condescended to me in a Twitter DM! And even more, the community manager Sukhjit Ghag started following me!
So if Seesmic does not acknowledge their wrongs I will not use it for any serious discussion!
August 23rd, 2008 at 6:37 pm
@Igor
I understand your frustration, but you must endeavor to take the moral high-ground. It’s hard, I know that, but if you really feel like your agenda is about the issues and not your ego, then you must be willing to be condescended to from time to time. You have chosen your role, that of the “troll with a goal”, and that means you will often have to work harder to make yourself understood.
I often explain you to my friends as being the Henry Miller or William Burroughs of social media. Remember how each of them were interacted with by their literary peers during their own lives.
August 23rd, 2008 at 6:41 pm
I have no problem eating humble pie!
I have cartons full of it!
Let’s hope Loic Lemeur would eat a few slices! Maybe he can read this post!
August 23rd, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Neal - LOL thanks for the insult ; I’ll be the judge of my ability to engage or disengage in rationality thanks very much. Emotional devices and the responses they elicit are (IMHO) fantastic tools for stimulating debate, not quelling it! Fuck calm logical discussion. Get impassioned, talk about stuff like it matters to you.
No one ever asked Igor to stop doing A B or C. I think Igor will agree with me when i say that in practically every scenario of his various online ostracisations from whatever online community or person that he has chosen to butt heads with you’d care to cite; they’ve usually been as a result of Igor refusing to abide by whatever was asked by the rules of the community at the time.
He’d berate and antagonise to get a reaction, via blogs or tweets or forums. It’s Igors way of getting the juices flowing. Yet it isn’t always appreciated by the people on the receiving end. These people have friends and allies and well..the rest as they say is history.
Like it or not, communities, societies do have rules and I agree too that we are absolutely free to choose to abide, challenge or plain ignore these rules. However, by having such freedom we also need to be mindful of the fact that every action has its consequences. You can’t ignore the rule of cause and effect. Do we see a big outcry of support for Igor’s view? No we don’t. Why is that I wonder? Probably because it doesn’t have a groundswell of support.
It sounds like I’m beating up on you Igor, I’m not. I get you, and I get why you do what you do, yet as you’ve encountered not everyone is of the same mind, especially when it comes to projects that have an aim that conflict with the controversial subject matter you discuss.
You’ve got a few quid in your pocket and some programming nous, if you want to discuss controversy, then why not build a platform and enable for such debate instead. You’ll have total control and be able to dictate what is and what isn’t on. I’m guessing that you’d draw lines in the sand too, if you didn’t then the law would kick your arse sir.
August 23rd, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Para above should read:
No one ever asked Igor to stop doing A B or C, (at least not in places that he owns and controls). I think Igor will agree with me when i say that in practically every scenario of his various online ostracisations from whatever online community or person that he has chosen to butt heads with you’d care to cite; they’ve usually been as a result of Igor refusing to abide
August 23rd, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Rob, why should I abide? Am I some sheep that says thank you maam and eat the shit even when it is packaged as exotic delicacy!
Of course I am going to speak out when I see something wrong! I am not going to procrastinate and masturbate my life away!
I say my opinion and ring the bells really hard! They have wax in their ears and not interested in diverging opinion I go my way! I am not in the business fighting brick walls!
The wall will collapse on itself unless it changes!
Enjoy eating Dry Toast!
August 23rd, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Seesmic likes to fashion itself as the “twitter” or video. Being that all of the conversations are ‘viral’ because of the way they tip and turn from one user to another and can turn into something entirely different from what the original post was about. That’s the definition of ‘viral’ if you ask me.
Now, as far as to what topics are aloud and what aren’t, let them be prudes about it. You can talk about any subject on twitter. That’s the idea. Freedom. We are free to block the conversations we don’t want to hear. Seesmic will only lose users and clout for making such statements.
Loic is too smart for that. At least, I thought he was. But then again, a good friend of mine that worked for him left recently because, and I quote, “my boss has turned into a big asshole.” And no, I cannot reveal a name for privacy and reputation reasons.
September 18th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
[…] Igor the Troll has thoughts. Igor the Troll likes to share his thoughts. Igor the Troll likes to talk smack while on a train in China. This should be good. Self-professed “crazy dude” Igor decided to tell videographer Loren Feldmen what he thought about him while bouncing along somewhere in the Far East. Entertainment ensued. Highlights from the troll: “Loren Feldmen you’re a loser…You’re just a douchebag…All you do is kiss Michael Arrington and Robert Scoble Ass.” Speaking of ass, Igor’s not always playing Debbie Downer on Feldman’s parade, sometimes he likes to creep the beejeebes out of everyone by discussing masturbation. […]